Any father who makes active efforts to spend time with his son should be considered a dream dad…
Right?
Last week, a post by a mother went viral. Long story short, her husband wanted to do a men-only fishing trip with their son, and she hadn’t supported him.
Why? Because their daughter wanted to go, too.
To the man’s credit, he held his ground and still went on the trip. But now, the daughter feels excluded and is distancing herself from dad.
In the post, the mother feels no responsibility toward this and thinks it is only the father’s fault.
Conservative commentator Matt Walsh brought attention to this with his comment (check out the quote tweeted post for full context):
“This is the mom’s fault and any woman who doesn’t understand that should probably refrain from getting married, at least until they emotionally mature.
Fathers need time to bond with their sons. I take my boys on a boys trip every year and my wife has never objected. We hike and fish and stay up late watching westerns.
Highly recommend that all fathers have a tradition like this with their sons. Eventually your sons will have sons of their own and you can keep the tradition going.”
I agree with Matt. It’s too bad the daughter needs to be excluded for this to happen, but that’s life. The only thing I’d do differently is tell my daughter we could do our own thing together, but the original post already discussed that. Otherwise, I’m on team men here.
At least, most of the men.
Because as Matt points out in a later tweet:
“It is the actual position of many feminists that women should have their own time and their own spaces but men should not.”
The crazy part is some of these feminists are… men!
Many of the comments are men saying “what’s the big deal?” or “let the daughter come!”
And this brings me to the bigger issue: men who don’t value man time because they don’t understand how it helps them develop healthy relationships and psychology.
In the story above, the mother didn’t value it either. We’re all the same so why do men need special time alone.
These are the same women who want men to be vulnerable, yet are repulsed when they share their problems and worries. Men-only spaces are integral to building strong relationships and a good understanding of self.
But the mom has been excoriated enough. This is about the guys.
I’ve made plenty of fun of male feminists before and don’t feel the need to rehash it, but if you favor an outgroup over your ingroup, you are a cuck.
There are still Girl Scouts but no Boy Scouts (they became just the “Scouts” and collapsed in popularity).
Girl’s nights out are fine, but boy’s nights out aren’t?
Recently, I had a run-in with the same ideology. I’m a member of the St. Andrew’s Society of Philadelphia, a Scottish heritage club.
It was founded to provide a network and community for Scottish immigrants all the way back in 1747, and accordingly you need Scottish ancestry to join (which is controversial enough in the “come one, come all” society we live in).
But what makes it even more controversial is that unlike other St.. Andrew’s Societies around the country, there are no women allowed in it. They can come to certain events as guests, but not to the quarterly meetings, and at the annual St. Andrew’s Dinner they are not seated at the main area with the men, but have their own section.
Women have grumbled about this for generations and at one point it even seemed possible they might succeed in joining. But the push was resisted.
And thank God for that.
The St. Andrew’s Society of Philadelphia is a dynamic and healthy organization with a waiting list on membership. Meanwhile, the other societies around the country are languishing. They have experienced the usual pattern of women joining, club social dynamics changing, men pulling back from leadership, and eventually a sterile culture that men don’t want to be a part of in the first place. And once the men stop joining or participating, the society enters a death spiral.
(A pretty similar thing that’s happening in most churches, unfortunately)
Which is why a conversation I had with a new member there at the last meeting was so astonishing.
I was speaking to one of my father’s friends when a man my age or slightly older approached me. He introduced himself with a canned line of sorts: “I think we spoke at one of the last meetings, how are you?”
This, of course, was definitely not true because I had not been to a St. Andrew’s event in years, due to my travel restrictions or incarceration. But he mentioned he was new and so I didn’t correct him – it was clear he was just trying to be friendly.
I started talking about the organization and how I had joined at age 16, and told him how it’s changed over time. And I mentioned to him how the organization has navigated a changing culture, and how one of its strengths was that unlike the other societies, it didn’t permit women.
He was awkward from the beginning of the interaction – you know like when a guy is trying to be a part of conversation but is too anxious to be present – but when I said this to him it was like a switch flipped in his head. He gave me a look like I just suggested we repeal the 19th and quickly excused himself afterwards.
I of course found the whole thing funny. I like to polarize people like this so I can find out early whether or not they’re my people. If he’s triggered by the idea of male-only spaces (even though he just joined one), he’s probably going to be triggered by my Capitol escapades too.
But I digress.
I can understand – but not agree – with the women who aren’t for men’s spaces. They’re jealous.
To have healthy relationships with women, you must first have healthy relationships with men.
From a woman’s perspective, a man’s ability to bond with another guy and be a “bro” to him through tough times is a green light.
I don’t often need to talk about this in my coaching, but sometimes it’s clear that a guy is missing that part of him and that it’s affected his development. Somewhat counterintuitively, he must develop his relationships with men in order to have a healthier relationship with women.
Otherwise, you depend on them too much for companionship and start to confide in them the way you would a brother. These are different roles and while there is overlap, brotherhood is about having each other’s back and being able to have serious conversations with someone you aren’t planning on procreating with.
I don’t expect you to sign up to work with me so you can forge stronger male relationships, but if you feel like you’re missing an aspect of your development, then it may be time to get that outside feedback.
And if you feel like the dad who just wanted to go fishing with his son, but got constant grief from his wife over it, that’s a sign that you have things to work on in your marriage.
Either way, to be in a top-tier relationship, you must become dynamic and integrated. And coaching is the best way to do that:
-Pat
